Bad sex/good sex

[gentlehag]

Confessions
- It's 6pm and I'm drinking from two different cups of coffee. Both are cold.
- I may be in love with Gary Clark Jr.
- I haven't been running in weeks.

Good vs Bad Smut
What is the line that divides good smut from bad smut? What makes it ridiculous? Weird anatomy is always a back-buttoner for me, but there are some perfectly fine smut scenes that I just cringe at sometimes and I don't even know why. And there are plenty more that I just scroll through because I'm bored out of my mind. What makes some good and some bad?

Also: What are the best and worst words to use (iyo) when referring to a female character's genitals? I really hate the word "pussy". For smut (and leaving aside issues on use outside of describing a sex organ), I'd rather go with the dreaded c-word but it's such a loaded word that I usually avoid it by not writing het. Anything's better than "unfurled blossom," I suppose.

Bad-Sex Prompting Post
What are the weirdest words, items, scenes, comments, and effects you can put into a smut scene without it descending into crack fic? I'm working on my smut-writing abilities, and I want to try this exercise. So:

Give me weird things to write standalone smut scenes around.

They will probably still end up being crack fic but that's life.

Comments

[oakstone730.livejournal.com]

Entwined tongues always gets me cringing.

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

Oh god yes. And licking the roofs of mouths or behind teeth, too. Kissing is so weird when it's described in detail.

[traintracks.livejournal.com]

Yes! Or swirling!

[mezzogiorno.livejournal.com]

Re: smut, vocabulary is my biggest turn on/turn off.

I LOVE the word pussy in smut. It's pretty much the only one I can tolerate. But I guess the words for men are worse for me. I hate "member", "rod", anything like that. Just say cock, and all is well. Anything that skirts what it is, or tries to make it sound too poetic, really turns me off.

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

Pussy just sounds so 1990s to me.

Rod, member, lol. Jesus. Cock, prick, dick, and penis are really the only ones I can do for men.

[oakstone730.livejournal.com]

omi_ohmyWrote a lovely post that helped me considerably in writing smut - http://omi-ohmy.livejournal.com/20070.html - focusing on more of the senses and less of the Slot A/Bolt B aspect. Of course, my smut is nothing to rave about, but I think it is getting better. (Wanders back to finish shower-sex-scene).

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

Oh perfect! Thanks for this link!

I like senses and thoughts in smuts scenes, as opposed to just the basic actions, yeah.

How's that shower sex scene going?

[bk03.livejournal.com]

I know the link was for zeitgeistic but I wanted to say thanks as well. It's an interesting read that has some good ideas.

[thegrownupthing.livejournal.com]

I've read so much bad smut and so little good smut that I can hardly help with this. Definitely with you in hating the word "pussy"... I usually am ok with the use of "clit" or "lips" (in case anyone thinks "labia" is too clinical even though I personally don't) but yeah there's not a lot of tolerable words to be honest.

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

Really? I agree that I've read a LOT of bad smut, but I think I've also read a fair amount of good smut, too. Some of it really heartbreakingly intimate and others steaming hot and even some creepy and weird but that still stuck with me after the fact.

I can do labia in a fic. I think I generally prefer "folds" over "lips" but I'll go with lips without being thrown out of a fic. "Mound" usually throws me out.

[themostepotente.livejournal.com]

I like the word 'cunt.' Dammit, I empower it!

I'll tell you what I don't like, though. Recently read a Sleepy Hollow fic in which Ichabod went down on Abbie and there was use of the words 'mons pubis.' I nearly choked on laughter.

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

*fistbump* Yeah! It's a great word. It's forceful and raw and equal in power to "fuck" imo.

That is so weird! It reminds me of "mound" which also makes me cringe.

I need to catch up on Sleepy Hollow. That show had potential!

[subtlefire.livejournal.com]

I miss running so much D: Damn my knee!

Sex sex sex. Well, it's super boring to me when it's just Character A did this, and then Character B did this. When it's pure tell, instead of show. Writing that actually makes me feel what the character is feeling, actually puts me into the scene, that's hot (assuming they're doing things that don't squick me).

I hate the word cunt in sex scenes, hate it. I don't care for pussy, but I guess it's okay in moderation. Honestly, with me it's best if you use a "soft" descriptor like core, or sex, or some shit. Cunt is what I call someone when I'm feeling road ragey.

Sex scene suggestions:

* Shoelaces
* Gym bag
* Antidisestablishmentarianism
* Dust ruffles

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I agree with you there. A play by play generally bores the shit out of me.

I think we're opposites on our likes for sex words. I feel gross when I read "core" it all feels too maidenly to me, but I've still been using "soft" words for the Dramione I'm writing. "Folds" mostly, and clit. I think I like when other writers can pull off good smut scenes with words like pussy, quim, fanny, etc, but I just feel ridiculous writing them. Cunt on the other hand is not a word I'd ever call a person; I only use it in reference to vajayays.

edit because I added in a word in the wrong place

[katemacetak.livejournal.com]

Most of the smut I love is really wordy and honestly more "erotica," although the definitions of those are so muddled anyway. I get bored easily with unpoetic, non-character-developmental smut. (God, that makes me sound so pretentious, I'm sorry.)

Fanfic-wise I generally only read m/m, so don't encounter words for ladyparts too much.
In romance books, though...I've found that simply saying "her sex" is the least obtrusive. I like that the term can be used for either gender, too. (Although cock is a pretty good catch-all for male organs.)

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

Ah yeah, I love character development in sex scenes. I don't want to just know what's happening, I want to know how it's changing the POV character, too.

"Sex" is okay, but it doesn't really do it for me. I guess what bothers me is that, as you said, "cock" is a good catch-all for men, but there's not really a good, universally sexy or at least not-cringe-inducing term for vagina for smut scenes. Clit is usually considered okay by most, but for the actual hole/entrance/that part, there's not much consensus. And "sex" doesn't really feel on par with "cock", you know?

[bk03.livejournal.com]

I agree with you about weird anatomy. I'd also include as turnoffs crude or disgusting details and descriptions, authors trying to get fancy with their words and/or using stupid analogies to describe the smut happening.

I'd be interested to know the answers to other words referring to a female character's genitals. While I haven't written any smut recently, I had found myself using the word slit and occasionally the word pussy. There's something about the "c-word" that makes it seem too powerful to use in smut, perhaps some of it is because of the negativity that word as attracted when used by idiots.

As for sex scene suggestions, because I'm drinking it right now, coffee.

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

What do you consider crude? Just word choice or going into detail about what's happening or...?

Slit is okay imo. I like cunt for sex as a form of reclaiming it for what it's meant to be.

Some others I've heard: mound, sex, womanhood, maidenhead

[eidheann_writes]

And for a prompt:

dirty talk, calendar, fruit basket, electric griddle

(I'm int he kitchen right now, why do you ask? >.>)

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

Ooh dirty talk. I wish someone would write 50,000 words of dirty talk PWP.

I first read that as electric girdle and I really have no idea how one of those could be worked into a sex scene without it turning into major crack.

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah! I'm all about some cold brew!

Pussy is such a stupid word! I hate it because of how it's used to call people wimpy and I've never been able to disassociate. Why do you dislike it?

[dicta-contrion.livejournal.com]

Bad smut, to me, looks a lot like generally bad writing - overly technical, hard to follow, characters without clear motivations, excessively flowery prose, reliant on cliches. And good smut looks like good writing - everyone's motivations are clear, the characters stay in character, descriptions serve a purpose, it's easy to empathize with one or both characters, some emotion is evoked. There may be some (and I think I may be heading this way, actually, because writing smut is very new), but I can't really think of cases where I thought someone was a good writer except for their smut.

But there are TOTALLY things that make me cringe. Mostly personal pet peeves - describing men's chests as tits or assholes as cunts in a way that's meant to be demeaning, the word "baby" (which I can't really imagine Draco or Harry using), tongue battles. But the biggest is the ridiculous language thing. "Her flower" - is this fanfic by Georgia O'Keefe? "Her heaving womanhood" - is this sex making her puke? "Her womanly mound" - which body part and/or topographical formation are we talking about?

I'm with you in preferring "cunt." It's a good, strong, work that's on par with "cock," and I'm in favor of reclaiming it. So when I have to use one, that's usually it. But it's touchy for so many people that I'll sometimes avoid using anything and say "she spread her legs" or "he pushed into her" or "she sank down on to him/his cock," etc., instead. Still pretty clear what's going on, I think?

For men, wtffanfiction has it covered here. I lost it somewhere between "mayonnaise canon" and "Lord Ass-burglar the magnificent," but points for creativity. And if you want some weird things to write around, there are plenty there. The Cockness monster, perhaps? "The thickest oak tree in the forests of dickland"?

[eidheann_writes]

"The thickest oak tree in the forests of dickland"?
*would totally read that*

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

That's a very excellent point. I hate gendered words like manhood and maidenhead etc, but I hadn't considered it so deeply. Thank you!

[traintracks.livejournal.com]

I love the word 'cunt'. It's so hot.

You know, good smut versus bad smut is like pornography: you know it when you see it. It's hard to say X is bad while Y is always good, because I think, in the hands of a great writer, ANYTHING could work. And in the hands of a bad one, pretty much anything can turn bad.

I do have a knee-jerk yucky reaction when smut strays from the physical stuff that's going on and becomes metaphor and allllllll about how everybody FEELS. I love feelings interspersed at the right moments, but when the entire act becomes an affirmation of their love? Bye-bye.

You know what word isn't used enough? Tumescent.

Do you know what item isn't used enough? Vibrators! On everyone!

So, you know, if you can combine those two things, I'm all in. LOL.

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

Cunt is a good, solid word. I like cunny, too.

Vibrators, hot. Especially used for DP.

[ragnarok-08.livejournal.com]

Strings of saliva being connected after tongue-kissing always squicks me out X_X;

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

Oh gross, yes! Like teenagers with braces kissing.

[awakenyourfaith.livejournal.com]

Weird anatomy, fighting/battling/tongues duking it out, and calling genitalia by their clinical names puts me off quite a bit. Same goes for the words "pussy" and "rod".

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

DUELLING TONGUES.

In this corner...!

And in this corner...!

[lettered.livejournal.com]

OMG I love this post. So near and dear to my heart. Thank you for bringing this up!

I'm an odd duck in that good smut doesn't always equal good writing for me. Honestly, when I go looking for hot fic I don't look for good writing; I look for a couple of specific kinks. If I'm reading a great fic that has romance that builds up to a sexual relationship, then I just want the sex to fit the characters and the story. So in that sense I want the smut to be well-written, but then it has less to do with specific terms or acts or kinks, and more to do with characterization and flow.

As for vocabulary it really depends on context. If you're writing characters who would never say the word cock then it is distinctly weird for the close third person narrator to use the word cock. I've written het fic based on canon from the mid 19th c and I just can't use the word cock in that fic to save my life. I have to pretty much say "him"--"he pushed himself inside of her" or "he opened his trousers and she touched him" etc. For her it's pretty much the same, though in a pinch I'll use the word "sex"--"he touched her sex". I mean, "between her legs" generally works. "He put his head between her legs and licked her there"--we all know what he's doing.

As for characters who are more liberal in their speech I'd say everything is cool, but it's not. I really dislike the word slit. I'll use clitoris but not clit. I might say labia but I probably won't say "lips" unless I'm desperate. I'll definitely say folds and "her wet folds". I'll say mons but not mound. And I love the words pussy, cunt, and snatch. I won't say vagina unless there's honestly no other way.

I might use the word quim, but more often when a character to referring to the anatomy in an off-hand vulgar way. Same is true with dick. Like, I'll rarely use dick in a sex scene, but I may say, "And after that he farted around, holding his dick, just waiting for her to call."

I love the words cock and prick. I'll never say the word penis. I'll say the word testicles, balls, and bollocks, but I don't like any of them. I probably won't say the word perinium. I'll use the words hole and rim and "tight ring of muscle". I probably won't say the word anus. I'll use the words "pink and pretty" in someone's mouth, someone who's describing it, but I would never let the narrator (or anyone, really) call it a rosebud. I'll have characters call an anus any manner of terrible things, including fuck hole, cunt, pussy, snatch, and come dump. OMG I'm so wrong.

Ass/arse generally work; I'll say ass cheeks, buttocks, and gluts.

AND CAN WE TALK ABOUT THE COME PLEASE. Because for some reason "cum" drives me crazy, but I will us any manner of horrible words like spunk, jism, cream, and sperm. Though for most things I share with the public it's come or something that gets around it, such as "his release."

As for prompts, idk. I've seen it all. But you asked, so here you go:

"Take that vibrator out of your ear!"

"What? I can't hear you! I have a vibrator in my ear!"

*runs away*

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

I am 100% with you about the sex needing to match the story/character development. If everything's rolling along friends to lovers and then they jump in the bed and Harry's calling Draco Daddy, then I'm a little weirded out. But if it's hinted at enough that Harry has Daddy issues, then I go with it and enjoy it.

As for vocabulary it really depends on context. If you're writing characters who would never say the word cock then it is distinctly weird for the close third person narrator to use the word cock. --- Yes ma'am. Snape calling Hermione's twat a "delicate, blooming orchid" or Harry thinking of Draco's cock as a "manhood" just weirds me out.

Oh, snatch! Love that word! It's one of my RL go-to words. I agree with you about dick/quim, etc. Dick is one of those words that I am happy to use in dialogue but when it comes to actually using it, it's a cock. Sometimes a prick, less so a penis.

YES we can talk about come! Cum is such a nasty word, but it's not the nastiness that bothers me, it's like...juvenile. It reminds me of 13 year old kids pretending they've had sex. I ONLY use come and if I read cum, it's a quick trip to the backbutton. Cream is a deliciously dirty word. Love that one. Spunk is good, too, as is jism and sperm. All of those are hot, so long as it's not cum! How about "girl come"? I can't decide if I like that or not.


LOL THOSE PROMPTS.

[koyaaniisqatsi.livejournal.com]

I like it when writers use the word sex in terms of "felt the wetness of her sweet sex" or "his sex nudged against her" but when it comes to any form of actual penetration, the word just doesn't work in my mind. xD

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

hehe!

[cleodora.livejournal.com]

Very little makes me cringe! Only the really euphemistic stuff really, "the centre of her womanhood" and that kind of rubbish. I like it fairly blunt!

I love "pussy", it's my preferred word for it actually! Cunt is my second favourite. Sometimes I'll use "snatch" or "slit" but it's pussy or cunt most. Sometimes I'll be a little euphemistic and say "wetness".